Questions & answers

Whilst perusing your great website i looked through the indexes under 'S' and saw that someone is looking for Charles Swankie, crew of AH18. Charles was my great grandfather and he died at sea on the AH18 in 1887. If anyone wishes to contact me for the full story i will be only willing to help. My email is arh@roymathieson.plus.com

Hi Calum Strathie -

Please note uploaded Dishland Town map is inserted at the foot of this page. B.L.

Hi Calum Strathie - Can't answer on actual derivation I'm afraid - only info I have is what's listed under the page: Streets C-E, that is that the street existed before 1822 under the original name of Dishland Town. I'm uploading clip from the 1822 map to clarify that. The name in that earlier form does seem to indicate a separate community in the early 1800s....
Regards, Brian Lawrence.

Any ideas about the derivation of Dishlandtown? Is it as literal as it sounds - i.e. the place where dishes were made? Would there have been a pottery in the area at one time?

Graham. 28/01/2017=Please does anyone out there know who built the charles avenue scheme in arbroath,or where i could get this information from.thanks.

Hello - I have a 30 day longcase clock with name of David Ramsay, Arbroath, on the face. There was a famous watchmaker/clockmaker who worked in the 1600's, but there have been other David Ramsays. This clock is probably either from the 1700's or 1800's up to about 1870. Is there any record of a David Ramsay working in Arbroath in that time as a master clockmaker? The clock keeps perfect time!
Stephen

I have acquired a beautiful Grandfather Clock from a family named Fiddes. I was told the clock stood in the family owned funeral home located on High St. The clock was brought to the United States about 1900. I am trying to trace the history of the clock and its owners. I am a clocksmith and have just completed the rebuilding and repairs needed to bring the beautiful clock back to life. From all the information I gained through researching clocks, it appears the clock dates back to the mid 1700's. Is ther any history you can lend to help me with the past owners? And is there history regarding clockmakers in Arbroath in the 1700's you can send? Thank you and God Bless.
Sincerely, Scott

I just want to say that Provost John F. Webster was my grandfather. He went as a boy to work for Andrew Carnegie in the States. He did two tours in Bethlehem Pennsylvania and when he went back to Arbroath ( or perhaps to Monifeith where he was born) , he met my grandmother Margaret Rennie.
He went back to the States for the second tour and when he came back, he married Margaret Rennie, who then became Margaret Rennie Webster (who I was called after).

They had three boys and a girl. The girl married Councill Frank Thornton - my uncle.

Grandpa's portrait as provost is now in Canada with my cousin William, who was Jack Webster's elder son. Gran Webster didn't like the portrait and I clearly remember it being in the spare bedroom under the quilt. I'm glad it now is in a more respectable place.!

I remember very clearly when the Stone of Destiny turned up in Arbroath - Grandpa was the Provost and Uncle Frank was a Town Councillor and I found a Pathe News of Uncle Frank and Mr. Wishart recounting how it was found.

I have very fond memories of Arbroath andI hope to come back soon.

Maggie Klein

Don't know if anyone can help me but my great grandmother died in Arbroath in 1936. Her address on the death certificate was given as 3 East Grimsby which my mum and myself can't find for the life of us. We've recently been told a boarding house for destitute people was at that address at that time. If anyone has any more information about it I would be eternally greatful as my great grandmother is a complete enigma to us!!

Hi Mike -
I've been told that tracks and marks do still exist on the sandstone caused by the removal of the material which the Abbey was built from between it's founding in 1178 and it's completion in 1233.

Hi
do you have any idea what made the tracks in the rock at the bottom of the cliffs at the end of the (vickt park) towards Auchmithie
Mike

Hi all, On doing family research James Suttie Ramsay my ggg grandfather was the editor/owner of the Arbroath Guide. Does anyone have information on this as I would be pleased to hear from you.Regards Peter Annan Ramsay

Hi - not too much I'm afraid. I understand Polish soldiers were in Scotland from as early as July or Aug 1940 - some in Arbroath being killed as a result of a German aircraft attack then whilst playing football on 'The Common' beside Tutties Neuk pub near the seafront. In May 1941 the 24th Polish Lancers were stationed here, and in Sept 1945 a stone was erected on the High Common by the 12th Polish Field Ambulance in gratitude to the people of Arbroath. Their presence here after arriving in an unprotected Scotland and setting to work in it's defence was of inestimable value to the nation. Kind regards, Brian.

Can anyone tell me, please, what Polish troops were stationed in Arbroath ifrom 1943 to 1944 or where I mIight get information on the regiments or units who were in the town during the Second World War? With many thanks in anticipation, Eileen.

Has anyone heard of Charles Anderson Ferrier?

He was my great great grand father and was born in Dundee 10 Mar 1829 to James Ferrier (Weaver) and Betty Lundie (Yarn Winder). His father died early in Charles life and his mother moved him and his brother James to Abroath.

Somehow Charles learned wood engraving and in the 1846 Postal Directory is working from Panmure Street, Arbroath. The other mystery I have is he then got himself an introduction to William Harvey (a noted wood engraver) who recommended him to the Dalziel Brothers of London. So by 1848 he is in London studying wood engraving with the Dalziels. Now how did he manage all that?

Charles supplimented his income by becoming a London Correspondant for a weekly Abroath newspaper - his articles written in his dinner break while working at wood engraving. He was also a strong advocate for Teatotalism or abstinence.

His mother Betty (1794-1866) and brother James (1831-1900) remained in Abroath until the end of their days - both worked in the mills - brother James never married.

Some of Charles work is held in the British Museum and others can be found in online books today. He is also mentioned at Wikimedia Commons etc. Later his interest in natural history and knowledge of scientific subjects assisted him in becoming a Fellow of more than one of the learned Societies. The Dalziels referred to him in their book The Brothers Dalziel as "one of the most remarkable men who had their beginning as pupils in our Studio".

"The love of his art, and the rapid growth of process-work, caused unspeakable sorrow to him in his later days. He mourned that a process almost purely mechanical should supersede an art which he had studied for 50 years and of which he still had much to learn." [R. M. Ferrier son of Charles]

Charles died 12 Jan 1908 in Essex.

I would love to have a picture of him or even an example of one of his newspaper articles.....and by the way this website is amazing.

Hoping someone may help,
Christine (New Zealand)

my grandmother owned and ran the lodging house,it was an cheap lodging house used for fairground workers, tramps, rag and bone men,circus workers, itinerants anyone on the move could get a bed at two and sixpence an ight.I was raised there by my granny and it was a great EDUCATION and great fun. Jack

Hi, does anyone have any knowledge of a jewellers named "J Willocks" of Arbroath. We have a small brooch in the family - in it's original box, and we would love to know when and where this jeweller had a shop. By the family timeline we think it was purchased sometime around 1880 - 1890.

We would be delighted to hear from anyone with any knowledge of this.

Good Morning, I am first generation American, my mother's Name was Betsy Beattie Cargill, her brothers were Andrew, Alexander, David and her parents Andrew Cargill and Isabella Eaton Cargill.
they grew up at 9 Old Shore Head. I was there many many years ago. My mother has told me were related to the Eatons, Swankie, and a few more. Andrew (her brother) was a champion swimmer and lived in Arbroath all his life and worked for the High School, his children were, Lorna, Andrew, Sandra and another sone (forgive me I can't rememeber his name) Alexander was killed while home on leave during WWII, David married Ella Thompson and they had three children Robert, Linda (passed in her 30's) and Margret. My mother married my father Albert Lerett during WW2 and my sister Sandra Cargill Lerett was born in Arborath. If anyone can help me out, I have pictures, have tried to reach my cousins I would greatly appreciate it. M

Hi Lynne - and thanks for your post. For genalogy enquiries try 'Scotland's People' - there will be a charge. There's a direct link to it from this site - half way down page 'Come Awa In !' on the menu. Try posting on 'the shoppie.com', a local community site. Other sources of vintage local info are the Arbroath Library and 'Angus Archives' - there are direct links/phone numbers to the last three from page 'Sources/Links' on this site's menu.

The only 'Sandy's Bar' I have a note of was The 'Lordburn Bar', renamed 'Sandy's Lordburn Bar' for a time before reverting to the original name. In more recent years it became 'Burns Bar', phone no: 01241 873362. Today I think there is a 'Sandy's Bar' in Dundee, 17 miles from Arbroath.

Wishing you success, Brian.

Can anyone help me find out information about my grandfather James S. Ritchie and my grandmother Amy Crofts Ritchie. Both are from Arbroath. My grandfather had a sister Rachael Ritchie and I know she had a Bed & Breakfast. I have found some pictures and a news paper clipping of Sandy's Bar and was wondering if this was owned by her also. I'm attempting to gather as much information as I can before I make the long awaited trip over. If there is a web site or something that would help me research this material I would appreciate any help.

Thanks Lynne Banner from Massachusettes USA

My grandmother was born Jean Brown Adam High in Arbroath in 1898. Her father was William High, watchmaker (who was also responsible for keeping the town clock running). She had a brother John, who went to Calcutta, while she moved to Shanghai to get married to my grandfather. I am trying to put togethe a family tree, and would be grateful for any infromation

Hi Robin - Hope someone can come up with an old photo and more info on that wash house , meanwhile see the two maps at foot of this page showing the locations mentioned. On the left the 'Smugglers' corner from the 1859 map and on the right the area from the 'Foundry Bar' corner on East Mary Street to the 'Smugglers' corner, this time from the 1901 map. The blue circle shows the 'Smugglers' and the yellow circle the 'Foundry Bar' corner . No footbridge on these is in evidence - might it have been a wooden structure ? I've included a pic (perhaps from 1890s ?) showing ladies using the Brothock for washing clothes further along at it'smouth at Danger Point.. Can anyone offer more info ?

Brothock Burn Mystery

My grandfather Robert Robb (1872-1964) was proprietor of the Foundry Inn (now the Foundry Bar) on East Mary Street in the early 1900's. He lived with his family at 39 East Grimsby Street in a tenament house above what was then the Customs House and is now the Smugglers Tavern. At that time there was a second floor balcony on the north side of the building with a foot bridge across the Brothock Burn to a wash-house on the other side. According to my late mother Chrissie Robb, they used water from the burn that had been heated up by the mills upstream. According to my Mother, the lines for drying the washing extended across the Brothock. Where and how this wash-house operated is a mystery to me? Does anyone know where this wash-house was and how it operated. Are their any photos of the Brothock from the Bridge that would show the upper story foot bridge and possibly the laundry hanging out to dry? Does anyone know if their were two houses up that close at #39 East Grimsby?

Robin Hallam
Duncan, British Columbia.

Hi Andy -
Hope someone can help you with the more recent details - I can only fill in the historical dates: Originally designated the 'Arbroath Industrial School For Boys', it opened in 1853 at 84 Brechin Road and closed in 1983. The building is shown on the 1901 map at the foot of the page...

Hi
Has anyone got any information regarding the dale school on Brechan road, I was there from 1974 till1979.
any information would be welcome regarding staff or fellow pupils from this period

Desiree Floyd from Virginia, USA has this query about the House Of Cald Coats, Inverkeilor - can anyone help ?

" Hi, I found an 1851 census record for my 3 greats-grandmother, maiden name Mary Jamieson Tulloch (20 years old at the time) and her aunt who was named Elizabeth Jamieson (70 years old at the time), living at a house called “House of Cald Coats” in Inverkeilor. I looked at the Inverkeilor map from around 1858 and there are only 20 buildings or so in the whole town. Does anybody know anything about the House of Cald Coats?
Also, I am probably descended from the same Jamiesons from the May 2012 question. –Mo Jamieson, feel free to get in touch. My 3-greats-grandmother was born around 1831 and ended up marrying a baker from Old Weston, Hunts, in 1861.
Thanks,
Desiree "

Many thanks, Brian - editor.

Janet,
I no all about the Raitt's of Arbroath.
I am Norman Raitt's Son, I knew your Father Samuel Raitt.
Samuel Bowden Raitt was married to Jessie Taylor.
Michael

Hi Isobel -
Re Christine Darroch's post of 2009, I have an email address for that lady. Could you email me at arbroathtimeline@yahoo.co.uk in order to pass that info to you ?
Many thanks, Brian....

I would like to contact Chritine Darroch who left a message re the above. in 2009

I am related to Agnes Petrie (Hogg) and have photographs of Robert and Agnes Petrie. I am also interested in the reasons why people in the flax and linen trade in Arbroath moved to Britanny in the 1800s. The book 'Arbroath: Past and Present'(Mcbain J M 1887) refers to the deterioration of the flax trade in Arbroath.

Glenda Evans has supplied the following details and is looking for any further information on James Anderson, watchmaker, 1795 - 1840. If you can help, please reply here....

'We recently purchased a George 111 longcase clock signed J Anderson Jnr Arbroath on the dial. Angus Archives forwarded me the following information from the Tay Valley Clock and Watchmakers, 1554-1900

Anderson, James
Arbroath, Angus
1795-1840
Watchpaper. – J. Anderson, Practical watchmaker, Jeweller &C, 6 Keptie Street , Arbroath.
Strap & buckle border, advertising clock and watch repairs

As a family/house historian myself I am curious to find out more about J Anderson, maybe someone has a connection to this Anderson family tree? Any information would be much appreciated.

Kind regards, Glenda Evans'

Hi Janet - and thanks for your post. 'The Ropies' appear to be from the location of ropeworks along the seafront. Have a look at the maps at the foot of the page. The left is dated 1822 and shows Glovers St and 2 ropeworks. The map on the right is dated 1901 and shows Glover St and 'Rope Walk'. Hope this helps...

My father, Samuel Bowden Raitt, lived with parents and many siblings at several addresses on Glover St. He joined an older sister (Louisa) in the USA in the early 1920s. As a child I heard them discussing "the ropie" many times, and I'd like to know more about what it is. My impression is that it might be a breakwater or seawall or something like that. Thanks and best regards.

Mo Jamieson asks:

"Does anyone know anything about the Jamieson family from Arbroath. My father's name was Royce Jamieson. His father was James Jamieson. My grandmother Beatrice Petrie was from Forfar as were her sisters and brothers.
Would love to know anything about them although i appreciate the names may
not be much to go on.

My fathers date of birth is 29/3/1926

If anyone knows anything pease email me on the address below.

Many thanks

Mo Jamieson"

mo.jamieson@birmingham.gov.uk

Please email Mo direct. Hope someone can provide her with some information (Brian, Ed).

Hi Shona, and thanks for your post.

Sorry - I don't have an answer immediately to hand.....left tho' is a clip from the 1859 map.

Can anyone else help ?
B.

Hi
Do you know how old the "Tutties Neuk Inn" Gayfield is? My 4x grandmother, Helen Aitken was the the Public House Keeper there in the 1861 census. It also seemed to be their address in 1853 when John Aitken her husband, died. They are not listed as the Public House Keepers in the 1851 census - John Aitken is a gardener in Dundee Street next to Murray Street then.
Shona

Hi Chris -
Nothing more than than that, I'm afraid. The Marine Ballroom played host to a few up & coming pop names. The Arbroath Herald (local newspaper) just might have a photo on file - it's worth asking the question....
All the best,
Brian

Hello.
I'm trying to track down the early "live " career of Slade and I was interested to see in your 2008 timeline the group listed as playing the Marine Ballroom under an earlier incarnation "Ambrose Slade"..do you have any more info .Anything would be appreciated.
Thanks.

Hi Ian - thanks for your post. I've included that info on the timeline & index and hope someone can offer you some Arbroath information on your family.
Kind regards, Brian.

Hi,
I'm interested on information on my grandfather James Pirie who was the publican at Tutties Neuk,Arbroath late 20's early 30's. his wife was called Jemima and they had 2 daughters Gracie and Ethel (my mother.) they also had 2 sons Gordon and Douglas,all are deceased. the family moved to Belfast N. I. end of 20's early 30's. They bought a pup in Belfast and called it the Edinburgh Castle.
Any information would be greatly appreciated.Thank you.
Sincerely Ian Harris.

I am tying to get details of the roles and duties of fishing women(or the wives of fishermen)in traditional times.I would also be keen to get any photos of women peforming these tasks at tthat time

Mr N. Whitton is interested in locating early (1930-1990) photos or other information regarding ' Ingle Neuk ', the house built around 1935 behind ' Tuttie's Neuk '. Can anyone assist ? Just click ' Add A Comment ' below.....

Hi Mike -
any further information about Mr Patterson's life would be much appreciated,
Take care,
Brian.

Hello again,
It has been a while since I last visited the site. History seems to have ignored William Patterson but I have recently had the good luck to have come into contact with descendants of the WP. One of his sons moved to the USA and established a successful business there. Maybe we will be able to accumulate enough material to provide a suitable legacy, even if only online.

regards .... Mike P

Yvonne Leaver is looking for information regarding the 'Poorhouse' situated in Helen Street during the 1800s. Maps we have, but can you fill in any detail about the history of the establishment itself ?

i would like to know the history of joss rock

what was the name of the ice cream factory attached to the seaforth hotel in the 1970s. i believe it belonged to the hotel owners .

Anyone recollect a building at the junction of S. and E. Grimsby which I understood to be a Poorhouse, but known locally as "the Monkey Lodging House"? Was there some confusion with Brothock house which did indeed have monkeys in the garden?

Anyone recollect a building at the junction of East and South Grimsby which I believe to be used as a poorhouse? Was commonly called the Monkey Lodging House.(Circa 1955/6) Was this confused with Brothock House which indeed had wild monkeys in the garden?

Re: Forfarshire

I've discovered Angus became 'Forfarshire' during the 1700s (until 1928) - but if you know something more specific.......?

Brian

Forfarshire - here's a question the editor wouldn't mind having answered:

Angus existed as an ancient Earldom, agreed.
Forfarshire existed until 1928 when the county once again became Angus.
So when did the county become known as Forfarshire ?

No hurry - just in your own time.......

Thanks folks, the Ed.

Hi Gordon - apologies, missed your post of 15th. The only reference to a ship chandler I have is regarding the use of the building at the foot of High Street at some point. It's now ' The Old Brewhouse ' restaurant, but apparently has been an inn, a school & ship chandler during it's existence. I've no proprietor name or associated dates, but will certainly ask next time I'm up. As usual, should any visitor to the 'Timeline' be able to help, please simply add a post to this page.

Considering the current success of Arbroath Marina with it's steady stream of nautical visitors, isn't there perhaps a growing opportunity for a modest chandler at our harbourside ?

Oh yes....the Smokie. I've yet to stumble across anything which beats the flavour of our wee delicacy - it's pretty special, isn't it ?

I'll post here should I find out anything,

all the best,
Brian

After seeing the fish being smoked I can almost taste my Grandma (Reid) MacGillvray's finnan haddie again! By chance would you know anything about a ship chandler in Arbroath called C. Gray ship chandler, I can't seem to find out anything about them but I am trying to buy a gimballed old ships lantern with C. Gray's brass tag attatched to it Thanks for any help. Gordon MacGillvray

Not having any success attaching the link, so, in old fashioned handwriting....
www.theround-o.com/16_george_hay.html

Fingers crossed,
B.

Here's the 'Round-O' link,
B.

Hi Brian, and welcome. Your Great Grandfather, born of course in Edinburgh in 1831, was editor of the Arbroath Guide from 1862. He worked 44 years for the newspaper until his death, aged 75, in 1906. The name 'Arbroath Guide' (which ceased publication in 1978) remains on the gable end of that building to this day. If you have the date of his son's marriage, I would like to include that entry. Regarding a pic of Geo. Hay, I've just re-checked the Arbroath photographs within 'Angus Archives' website, but unfortunately without success - my website would also appreciate such an image. Sorry, can't say if whaling ships left from Arbroath (perhaps, but maybe Dundee ?). Again, a date on this subject would help me to include it on the 'timeline'. There is a short account of George Hay (Editor) on 'The Round O' website - just follow the link.
Hope this helps a little,
All the best,
Brian Lawrence.

George Hay - author of History of Arbroath was one of my great grandfathers. I have an original copy of his book. I understand he was editor of the Arbroath Times Newspaper, but I do not see it mentioned on your excellent website pages.
A son married Sarah Peach, daughter of William Benjamin Peach - very famous geologist of Scotland. Peach (and Horne) also wrote a book "Geology of Scotland", has a plaque in an Edinburgh Museum - a statue up at Inchnadamph, north of Ullapool. A new SNH Geological Centre opened near there south of Ullapool in honour of him and his partner, John Horne. I have their book too.
Is there any photo available of George Hay, maybe a newspaper appraisal of him ? I do not know who or where to ask.
I believe another son of his, George Hay was a whaling ship's captain - presumably sailing from Arbroath ?

Hi Jim - thanks for the post. I'll have to offer your questions out to any knowledgeable visitor to this site I'm afraid - can anyone help on this name & harbour fish merchants around 1900 ?

Hello, would you know where i can find out about Fish Merchants in Arbroath Harbour about 1900. Am also looking to see where i could find any photos of a HGouse in the harbour, the house in question is currently called Harbour Lights Guest House.
Any help would be great.
jim

Thank you Bill - that info is now included under '1896'.
Unfortunately I've had a small catastrophe as the entire contents of page: 'Timeline Index O - Q' have disappeared as I edited & indexed the names & places concerned. No idea how it happened and it'll take some time to reassemble the O, P & Q index. I'm so annoyed with either myself or the new editing system I've just agreed to accept - not sure which is to blame yet ! But hey, why am I greetin' ? I'm retired, and time in all it's infinity belongs to me, so therefore no problem exists !
Your input is much appreciated,
All the best, Brian

Re: Old Parish Church.
On the completion of the restoration of the Old Church reopening for Public Worship. Mrs Mary Grant of Woodside the wife of the Provost in 1896 presented Bibles and Hymnals to replace those lost in the Municipal Gallery when the Church was destroyed by fire in November 1892. These were presented to the Magistrates and Council of Arbroath. I discovered a copy of a Hymnal in an old secondhand bookshop in Stirling many year ago.

Thanks Will,
Arbroath's Public Library keeps a card record of part of the Arbroath registered fishing fleet ( I understand some of the records have been lost ). The info has been transferred onto their own 'intranet' although not available online. They will check through that list for you no problem - phone no: 01241 872248.
A while back, I did make an offer to the library of including the available info on this site, but unfortunately was refused permission.
All the best, Brian.

I read Laura Doig's input (29th Jul 2009) with interest. She refers to the fisher wives of Auchmithie carrying their men out to their fishing boats. I would like to point out that this was an act carried out all over the Scottish coast. In these days there was very little shelter (if any) on the boats variously named as 'Fifies, Baldies, Zulus and Scaffies' and without a harbour, the boat would have to be launched off of a beach. The point was to keep the fishermen's feet dry as they could easily succumb to hypothermia in the very exposed environment of a fishing boat 's deck. The crewman's wife could then return to the house and dry herself off before doing all her other chores. Understandably, a fisherman would have to consider a potential wife's ability to carry out this task before they reached the 'courting' stage.

On another 'related' note, i am a model boat builder currently building a model of the Arbroath boat named 'Bruce's AH94'. If any one has any details or photos of this boat or the 'Girl Jean AH76' or the 'Margaret Cargill', I would be delighted to hear from them.
What a brilliant site.
Kind regards
Will Taylor

Many thanks Rosana -
No quick answer, I'm afraid , but I'll enquire next time I'm up. Wondering if the location is now the car park entrance....
Any info I get will be entered on this page,
Kind regards,
Brian
(my own Dad was born in the town that same year !)

I think this website is fantastic. It must have taken lots of time and effort.
I found out on my father's birth certificate that he was born in Arbroath in 1912 at 49 High Street. It was an italian cafe with accomodation above so I've been told. They moved away a few years later. I recently visited Arbroath while on holiday in Scotland only to find that it doesn't seem to exist any more. Would you be able to tell me if any houses were demolished or where I could get that information.
Thank you
R N

Hi Laura, and many thanks for your kind words & interest. This website is hungry for dates which make the chronology of the town's evolution clearer and I'm certain that many dates relating to the family / families' role as major employer, mill constructor, harbour builder, etc, etc would enhance these pages. The website strives to be a timeline, plain & simple, and new specific dates would make the immense Arbroath 'jigsaw' more complete to the visitor's eye. Information is most welcome and can be emailed to the above address,
Enjoy your homecoming,
Kind regards,
Brian Lawrence.

Hi there
I am extremely impressed by your website, Arbroath thouroughly deserves it! I´m the great-grand daughter of Sir William Chapel and grand-daughter of Provost David Chapel and I lived at Caenlochan with him and my mum (who was Lady provost when my grandmother died). My other ancestors include the Corsars who owned the mills in Millgate and my the great Annie Gilruth who had the harbour at Auchmithie built to stop the women from getting their feet wet while carrying the men out to their boats! Anyway, I´m writing because I´m living at Spain and the moment and mums coming for a 2 week holiday at the end of the August, our plan is to go through the family history properly and record it as I am the only one left who is interested, my mum knows all the dates and has lots of documents so it should be interesting. Would this be of any use to you?
Kind regards
Laura

Hi Christine - I don't know, but I wll ask. I've a couple of map clips of the Jamieson St area before & after your family lived there which I'll email - might be of some interest & I'll post here if the 'French connection' rings bells - Anyone out there with a bell ringing ?
Kind regards,
Brian.

Hi Kath - and thanks for the post. Genealogy I'm afraid I have to step back from, but welcome any input from any Angus Patersons / Cargills / Spinks / Smarts who feel they can assist with possible connections. The subject of a recent post was of course Patterson / Paterson & I can only refer you also to the 'Scotland's People' website to try to provide information on your family's unfolding generations.
May you have a happy & fruitful visit to Angus come September,
Kind regards,
Brian.

My great-grandfather, Robert Milne Petrie and his wife, Agnes Dempster Petrie (née Hogg) lived in Jamieson Street in Arbroath in the late 1870's and were sent to Landerneau in Brittany to set up a linen factory, with several others in the early 1880's. My grandmother was born in Arbroath in 1789 and grew up in France, before returning with the family to Arbroath, marrying there and settling in Dundee.

Can anyone shed any light on why Arbroath people were sent to Brittany at this time? I believe the factory was destroyed by fire in the 1890's, but the Scots are still remembered there, but not in Arbroath!

I have recently discovered my Scottish ancestry and would like some info on the Pattersons, one or two Ts from the Angus area, my GGGGGrandmother was Janet Paterson b. 1804 Kirriemuir daughter of Jean Smart b1778 Kirrie and Thomas Patterson b.1774.
Her grandparents were Agness Spink and David Cargill. We are visiting Scotland 6th September and would love to meet some relatives or learn a bit more about the others as well.
Regards
Kath Perth Western Australia

Hi Mike -
1795 (William Patterson's year of birth) appears to be too early for any census record, but I'm informed that one individual ( i.e. a 'Patterson' spelt with a double 't' ) is recorded around that period on 'Scotland's People' website. It may, or may not, be the gentleman in question - perhaps you could investigate personally.
Good luck with the search - I'd be interested to learn any early details for inclusion here,
Brian.

Hi Mike -
You come from good stock - William Patterson was indeed a great man ! I don't have immediate information on his specific place of birth, but on my next visit to the town (this w/e)I will certainly enquire.
I'll reply here should I strike lucky !
Regards, B.L.

ps - Perhaps visitors to this page can assist ?

Hello,

In researching my family tree I discovered I am a descendent of William Patterson, shipbuilder of Arbroath. There is a photo of him which is held in the Bristol Records Office - you may be able to obtain a copy of it from them. I visited there recently from Australia and saw the SS Great Britain - a worthy monument!!

By any chance would you know where in Arbroath he was born and was raised??

Regards ... Mike Powter

Hi Brian - thanks for your help - Tamara & I are now in contact. Sorry to learn of your Dad's passing, thank heavens at least you managed to capture some of those precious moments with him. As a teenager I gave no thought to what my own Dad had done prior to me arriving on the scene. The fact that during WW2 he had to leave his young wife and baby to go fight across Africa and through Italy for 5 years, never entered my head .... oh for hindsight! My own kids have the same attitude and so I'm going to leave the clues in my memoirs as to where I've buried their inheritance ...... that'll teach the wee scunners ..... BW Peter

Peter - great advice. I recorded both of my parents in their later years and am so glad I did. Six months or so before my Dad passed away, I learned things from a one hour taped session that I hadn't known all my life. Within a short time his health deteriorated & a similar 'history lesson' would have been impossible. Of course we're all so dashed busy these days living for the now, but an hour or so asking 'leading questions' & recording the recollections of a senior family member is of more value than sadly most of us realise. What price, for example, can you put on a g.g. grandson or g.g. grandaughter listening to the voices & times of their g.g. grandparents ?
May your 'recipe' become common practise,
All the best, Brian.

Thanks Brian, much appreciated. Sorry the item was long-winded but local verbal history is so, so important and a true treasure trove of information for future generations. With such a vast arrange of modern technology at our fingertips, I'd urge everyone to sit their elderly relatives, loosen them up with a few wee drams and get them to reminisce of the past, recording these for posterity. Hands up just how many of us regret not doing this with our parents? Also keep a journal yourself, recall your life's experiences - what may seem tivial to you now, will fascinate those to come and form a link with you, spanning Time. Get out your boxes of photos, write on the back the date taken and as much info as you can, and put them into Albums, and if you are able, scan them, commit them to DVDs and share these with your family. There endth the lesson! Best wishes Peter

Many thanks Peter for the posted information - it's quite a saga !
I am indeed passing your email address to Tamara who no doubt will be fascinated & wish to correspond directly with you.
Meanwhile I'll continue to digest the info supplied & (with your permission) extract Arbroath related facts relevant to this timeline.
Kind regards,
Brian - Ed.

A bit of additional info for Tamara & Arbroath history buffs ......
When G.S.Melvin (21) married Ruby Lewina Stewart (18) at Perth on 17th October 1907, he listed his address as "Theatre Arbroath" and styled himself as a professional comedian. George Joss Melvin was described as a "Music Hall Manager.

In response to Tamara's comments on G.S. Melvin, George Joss Melvin & Ruby Melvin, here's a transcript drawn from a tape recording made of elderly Melvin relatives discussing them. My Great Grandmother was Mary Melvin sister to David Melvin c1840-1876 father of George Joss Melvin c1865-1911 father to George Spence Melvin (G.S.) 1886 - 1946 father to Ruby Melvin aka Little Rube (born in Arbroath 17/1/09)

"The whole of the Melvin family were highland dancers. George Joss Melvin, the senior member of the family after his father died, was a guy who sold newspapers on the corner of the street with Harry Lauder (later Sir Harry). His mother Margaret Cameron Melvin owned a store, that her son G. J. and Harry Lauder took the mirrors out of the windows and down to the cellar where they taught each other highland dancing on the dirt floor. G. J became a highland dance champion of the World.

G. J. was a wizard at changing highland pennies into gold, he took an old church and turned it into a bar where he made enough money to buy a little theartre. With the money he made out of that he started 3 stock companies that toured the small cities and towns around that area in the summer (like summer stock), he named the stock companies Melvins Merry Mascots.
G. J. had 4 sons, 3 in their own right were actors, song and dance men, each ran a stock company. In fact all the family were good actors and actresses.
With the money he made from the stock companies he bought another high class bar in Aberdeen, then he went back to Arbroath where he bought some land off the city for a few pounds and later sold it back for a lot of money, he died at about age 48 and was practically a millionaire.

G .J. sent 3 daughters to finishing school in London, and his youngest son through Eaton College, his other three sons were pretty well off as actors on the legitimate stage. He died within 10 days off his wife Eliza who succombed to a very bad cold in 1911, the doctor said that he died of a broken heart in, this year was a tragic one for the family as G. J. and Eliza's son David who was a vocalist had died earlier in the year.

After G. J. died the family scattered. Two of his daughters Annie and Margaret, and also his son Alec stayed with Davidann, her husband and family for a while during the First World War. Ann died in 1918 and the last they heard of Alec, who was a good singer and tap dancer was that he had gone to Australia.

G. S. Melvin was one of the stars in Britain, he came in second as most popular star for stage work. He was a leading man in big shows, especially in the pantomimes at Christmas, he was about to be knighted when he drowned. He played in America and took Broadway by storm. He lived on the outskirts of London, the area where he worked all round. At the back of his house in Kingswood Creek, Wraysbury was the River Thames, he was at the time due to rehearse a show, his car was all packed up and ready to go, he said to his wife he would go to the back door to see how the flood was, and he fell in and drowned, he was in his sixties."

Footnote: G.S.Melvin's 2nd wife Flora (nee Holland) reported him missing on December 1st 1946 and his body was recovered on January 1st 1947 at Chertsy Ferry on the Thames, his cremation service being on January 7th at Golders Green in London. He was due to appear in Panto at the Theatre Royal in Drury Lane at the time.

Please feel free to pass on my email address to Tamara and I'll send her what photos & newspaper clipping images I have of G.S.

Yes, that all looks correct.
Regards
Tamara

Thanks Tamara - just check that the entries on pages 1909, 1910,1911,1985 & ' The Palace ' have been interpreted correctly, Brian.

Dear Brian, Have just trace a relative from the Melvin side, it seems my Grandmother Gertrude Melvin was born in Arbroath on the 8th December 1902 and was the daughter of George Joss Melvin and Eliza Spence both died in Abroath in 1911. The family had a troop called Melvins Merry Mascots. G S Melvin was my Grandmothers brother and Ruby was his only child 1909-1985.

Regards
Tam

On my last post the last sentence should of course read: ' Melvin's Picture PALACE' - B.L.

'MELVIN'S PICTURE PALACE'
Tamara - Have a look at 'Musical Timeline' sub-page 'The Palace'. You'll see that the Inverbrothock Church had been in use as an entertainment venue since 1890, so Geo. Jess Melvin would have bought it in this converted state. It was named 'Melvin's Picture House' between 1910 & 1913.
Regards, Brian.

Many thanks Tamara - yes, I've wondered for some time if Ruby Melvin was actually from Arbroath (you'll have seen the reference & heard the audio file on page '1965-1969' ? See 1967 - Ruby's just great on that '45'. ) but the link's clearer now. I'll add this if I may - but any specific dates would also help.
If I ( or perhaps anyone else out there ?) uncovers any Melvin connections, we can report back to you.
Thanks meanwhile,
all the best, Brian.

Not sure if this is of any use to you but I have just found that I was related to G S Melvin famous Scottish pantomime dame and comedian who's daughter was Ruby Melvin known as Little Rube who became a singer then later worked for the Herald Press Abroath for 25yrs. G S Melvin's father George Jess Melvin purchased an old church I think in Abroath and turned it into a Bar which he made enough money from to buy the theatre which he renamed Melvin's Picture Palace. I would also be interested if anyone has any information on this family, many thanks.